Curse

Jeydra · May 10, 2012, 12:21 PM // 12:21

Does this skill have potential to replace "Fall Back!"? If you can spare two slots on one character, as well as 9 points into Command, then you can FB -> Godspeed -> FB for 30s of party-wide speedboost, generally enough to get to the next mob. That saves one copy of Fall Back (you need three) and also two characters that would otherwise have to spec 9 Command.

Cons:

1. You lose 8% movespeed. I don't think this is very important.
2. You need to run enchantments on everyone.
3. You have less flexibility if people aren't in range of the first shout.

About #2, every meta profession can run a long-lasting enchantment, e.g.

Necro - Masochism
Elementalist - Attunement / Aura of Resto
Mesmer - Illusion of Weakness lasts forever even at 0 Illusion
Ritualist - Boon of Creation, Spirit's Gift (unfortunately hero AI doesn't maintain Spirit's Gift)
Monk - UA

Thoughts?

Whirl E Vic · May 10, 2012, 12:40 PM // 12:40

Seems like more hassle than it is worth tbh. Assuming that you have the enchants that you're using anyways on all of your hero skill bars, it might work. However, if you need to modify every bar, you're replacing multiple skill slots to save 1 - doesn't seem worth it. It also seems like an invitation for lagging heroes if the shout goes off and they are not enchanted or if they need to stop to recast their long enchantment. As far as saving one bar having to spec into command - there's usually enough room to slip in another command shout or two (SYG!, Never surrender maybe, or "Find Their weakness!" for the lulz) on one of your fall back carriers, so personally I like having the extra heroes with command. If you wanted to run other optionals from a different prof/line, then I guess godspeed could be an option.

Credit for considering other options, I love to slap together bars of unused skills and go do a dungeon or something, but I'm lukewarm on the idea.

Wielder Of Magic · May 10, 2012, 12:48 PM // 12:48

For now I am tempted to say no.

The IMS on FB is unconditional.
Godspeed does not only require you to bring enchantments ( meaning less flexbility. a curses necromancer for example won't really use any enchantments, nor would an sos since spirit siphon blows boon out of the water. UA is a specific case locking your elite, not even starting about how its usability is being questioned.), but your enchantmens also have to be active at the moment Godspeed is used.
Meaning that when you get stripped, you have no IMS.
If your enchantment happens to wear off, you have no IMS.
Imo it relies to much on your entire party being enchanted.
Fallback allows for more flexibility.
In low skill PvE it doesnt matter what you bring, besides fall back being the superior skill.
In high end PvE you only take the best skills that if possible do not have to meet a crapload of conditions to fire off.
Fallback just needs to be used for the effect.
The fact that godspeed requires you to be enchanted makes it situational imo.

Besides, I don't see any reason why a partywide IMS should be maintainable.
Fallback is enough to get from group to group, and you don't need it while fighting.
And when you want to escape from a bad pull or over aggro you want a fire and forget failsafe, not a skill that potentially leaves half your party at the mercy of HM monsters because they do not have an enchantment on them.

Olle · May 10, 2012, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

2. You need to run enchantments on everyone.

About #2, every meta profession can run a long-lasting enchantment, e.g.

Necro
Elementalist
Mesmer
Ritualist
Monk

Warrior, ranger, assassin,dervish,para =

Its probably worth taking in teams with only the profs you say, but its still not really worth it.

Net The Nabi · May 10, 2012, 02:15 PM // 14:15

SoH on any melee profession makes it more viable. Though I agree for the most part that you only need one FB to get from group to group. There are some areas with a ton of space in between, and when vanqing, I like being able to clean anything I missed with multiple copies so I don't waste HOURS looking for one patrol.

Skyy High · May 10, 2012, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olle

Warrior, ranger, assassin,dervish,para =

Sins have a few long-lasting enchants, and dervs have a ton (including two that last indefinitely).

I do find it funny that a paragon would be unwelcome in a team that planned on using Godspeed.

Atanna Charta · May 11, 2012, 02:44 PM // 14:44

Godspeed works great for builds that use orders or bonds.

But most build have at least one guy without enchants, and you'll lose time waiting for him to catch up, or microing enchants on to him.

Axel Zinfandel · May 11, 2012, 04:15 PM // 16:15

I'm always curious why people don't run Hasty Refrain on para heroes when they use them. a single skill can provide the whole team with permanent IMS if you do it right.

Jeydra · May 11, 2012, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olle

Warrior, ranger, assassin,dervish,para =

Its probably worth taking in teams with only the profs you say, but its still not really worth it.

Conjure, Conjure, Way of the Master, Faithful Intervention, Conjure - although none of these heroes are meta. And while most builds do indeed not have long-lasting enchantments, the idea is to load your team up with these long-lasting enchantments.

That said after trying out the concept a few times I think it's a waste of time. I save two copies of "Fall Back!" + 9 spec into Command on two characters. In return I lose 2 skills on the Mesmers (shifted to Illusion of Weakness) and one skill on the SoS (shifted to Spirit's Gift). Is it worth it? It hardly seems like it. Sure I now get to micro two skills instead of three, but that's all. I think I'll trash the idea and move on to something else.

Kelvin Greyheart · May 11, 2012, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Worthwhile for sinways that use an a/p since everyone is enchanted, and with an essence up the loss in movement speed is negated. For those teams it's just a fall back minus healing with a greater percentage of uptime.

For general pve it's too clunky, and requires you to bring skills that have no actual use in many cases. Faithful intervention and eternal aura are both rather lackluster skills. The same is true of illusion of weakness. They don't actually do anything until their triggers are met, and you don't want to be in a situation where you would meet them 90% of the time anyways. Why not bring a skill that is going to be useful in the majority of the cases instead?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

I'm always curious why people don't run Hasty Refrain on para heroes when they use them. a single skill can provide the whole team with permanent IMS if you do it right.

Because it requires a ridiculous investment into leadership to have a duration that isn't absolutely laughable, it provides a mere 25% movement bonus, the only shouts heroes use outside of combat are already movement bonuses (or don't always get applied/used like never surrender), and there is almost no reason to run paragon primaries unless you are running something like racway.

To summarize, you need to invest a ton of points for it to be usable, and you still need to invest in quite a few skill slots to sustain it. It is not "A single skill". You may as well invest those points in command, not be tied to a primary paragon, and just bring fall back.